L: I would also be interested in what people can do to make you feel welcome in a space, to make you feel safe.

I think just saying that I am welcome is a good first step. For example, at the GFN, they say that they are accepting of all genders and sexualities, and all races, all colours, things like that, to make other people feel welcome. But I think that the same time also not making it seem like they’re different in any way, if that makes sense.

L: So not singling somebody out, like ‘oh, we’re inclusive of you’…

Yeah, exactly, even though we’re different, it’s not that we don’t see the difference, but at the same time making it feel like there is no difference. But, you know, it’s really difficult, especially with different cultures coming together, and how do we understand each other… In a way, I think, it’s about going deeper. Like, that might be a first step, but it’s about getting to understand each other, getting to know each other really genuinely. And I feel that’s what’s lacking in this world today, we don’t genuinely take interest in each other. So, then you have a half-assed ‘Hiiii!’, and it seems nice, but it stays a superficial thing.

“I feel that’s what’s lacking in this world today, we don’t genuinely take interest in each other.”

I realize that especially being in a relationship with someone who is white. Because we are so close, it makes us have to confront the things about each other that are different, and it’s on a quite deep level, so actually you really deal with the problems that are dividing you and the other person. And I feel that’s something that’s lacking. We think ‘I’m ok with this person’, but am I really ok with the person? Because you never went deep into solving the problem. And I think that’s what we need to do more.

Let me take veganism as an example, I think why not take a time where we cook together or something, to actually share veganism, to show that it could be something enjoyable, it could be something we could do together and have a good time, eat together… And then we also get to know each other, do more bonding with each other. Rather than just telling me ‘Eat vegan!’ Now, I was thinking that is maybe a good idea for a segment on my channel, like veganising Trinidadian food. Although I have to be honest, I’m not totally a vegan, but I’m trying to get there.

L: Yeah, it’s always work to try and do less harm in the world. I like the idea of taking people by the hand and doing that together.

Yeah, and not just pointing fingers and saying like ‘Oh, you’re doing this wrong’, but help me with it, especially if I’m showing an interest in it. So yeah, I feel that’s what we can do more, really genuinely be interested in each other. Because otherwise we always stay at the superficial level, where nothing happens, where we never really address the real problems.